HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-29-1988 Hansen GPAADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING - November 29, 1 988
An Adjourned Regular Meeting of the City Council of the City of Dublin
was held on Tuesday, November 29, 1988, in the Board Room of the Dublin
Unified School District, 7471Larkdale Avenue. The meeting was called to
order at 7:10 p.m., by Mayor Paul Moffatt.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT:
Moffatt.
Councilmembers Hegarty, Jeffery, Snyder, Vonheeder and Mayor
HANSEN RANCH GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT STUDY, EIR, PLANNED DEVELOPMENT
PREZONING~ TENTATIVE SUBDIVISION MAP NO. 5766~ AND ANNEXATION REQUEST
Staff advised that the purpose of this SPECIAL MEETING is to discuss and
clarify issues related to the 147 acre proposed Hansen Ranch Project.
Venture Corporation/Hansen Hill Development Corporation is proposing a
General Plan Amendment to consider a 245 dwelling unit residential
development on this site, which is west of Silvergate Drive and north of
Hansen Drive.
This public hearing was continued from the November 14, 1988 Council
meeting. On Sunday, November 27th, a field trip to the site was
conducted. Additional Special Meeting dates have been scheduled for
December 6th and December 13th, if necessary. The Council has indicated
that the meeting discussions will follow the 4 major issues identified in
the November 14th Hansen Hill Ranch Staff Report. Staff requested that
direction be provided on each issue before proceeding to the next issue.
The major issues are:
Issue No. 1: Conflict with Open Space Policies of the General Plan. The
project proposes to fill the heavily wooded ravine and develop the area
with single family houses. Certain areas with slopes over 30% would be
graded to allow residential development. Staff requested direction,
"Should the General Plan policies be changed to allow residential
development on areas that would otherwise be maintained as open space?"
Issue No. 2: Type and Number of Dwelling Units (Land Use Designation and
Density) for the Developable Areas. The Applicant's proposal, the
Planning Commission's recommendation and Staff's recommendation regarding
the type and number of dwelling units'are substantially different. The
Applicant proposes 174 single family units, 37 patio (zero lot line)
units, and 34 townhouses, for a total of 245 units. The Planning
Commission recommended a total of 235 units. Staff recommended 129
single family units, 0 patio (zero lot line) units, and 50 townhouses,
for a total of 179 units. Staff requested direction, "What is the
appropriate type and number of dwelling units for the deVelopable areas?"
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Adjourned Regular Meeting November 29, 1988
Issue No. 3: Significant Environmental Impacts on Oak/Bay Woodlands and
Stream (Riparian) Corridor. The project would result in the loss of over
600 major trees (over 3' in circumference 2' above ground) primarily in
the ravine area and along Martin Canyon Creek. The project would also
disturb the stream corridor along Martin Canyon Creek. Staff requested
direction, "Should the project avoid impacting the oak/bay woodlands and
stream corridor, or are these impacts acceptable based on specific
overriding benefits?"
Issue No. 4: Significant Environmental Impacts from Mass Grading. The
project as proposed would involve approximately 930,000 cubic yards of
soil to be moved and a 50' fill in the ravine. The Applicant has
indicated that a substantial amount of the "cut" on site would enhance
the views from existing houses along Hansen Drive. The project would
have balanced amounts of on-site cut and fill to eliminate off haul
impacts on residential streets. Staff recommended that the ravine be
maintained instead of filled and that the mass grading be substantially
reduced or eliminated through a combination of in place recompaction and
off haul using the proposed Valley Christian Center road connecting to
Dublin Boulevard. Staff requested direction, "Should the project avoid
mass grading, or are the associated impacts.acceptable based on specific
overriding benefits?"
Mayor Moffatt asked'the Council how they wished to deal with the issues.
Cm. Hegarty requested that the density issue be placed last for
consideration.
Cm. Vonheeder did not feel that the Council could vote on each issue
independently, as they are all related.
Mayor Moffatt suggested and the Council concurred with setting an
adjournment time for the meeting at around 10:00 to 10:30 p.m.
Cm. Snyder advised that City Staff had received a telephone call today
from a resident who did not wish to identify themselves. The caller felt
the City Council scheduled the Sunday field trip on a day and time when
most people would be unable to attend. Cm. Snyder stated he wished to
clarify that the Council went out of its way to coordinate everyone's
schedules to plan this field trip and felt it should be understood that
the Council has not yet made any decisions relative to this project.
Mayor Moffatt declared the public hearing reopened.
Cm. Jeffery questioned with regard to cutting of the slopes, what
percentage is for roads and what percentage is for housing pads.
Gordon Jacoby, Project Applicant, using posted display maps, showed the
swale areas which are less than the 30% slope. The loop road comes
around and he indicated the locations where they are proposing the custom
lots. The grading is primarily for the road.. Mr. Jacoby gave an
overview of the logic of their plan. Dublin's General Plan policies try
to balance a number of goals. On this'site, they are talking about 1,900
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Adjourned Regular Meeting November 29, 1988
trees and proposing.to remove about 600. The need to provide a roadway
for police, fire and other access was discussed as being a loop road
system. They.have tried to work with the community to develop things
that came out of community forums. They have tried to increase the views
of the existing Hansen Drive homes. They looked at what would have the
least environmental damage with regard to fill. They have tried to come
up with a balance and propose to replant the removed trees with a ratio
of 3 to 1.
David Gates, Landscape Architect, advised that they only surveyed those
trees that they thought would be either removed or affected. He felt
there are probably about 5,000-8,000 trees on the site.
Robert Patterson, Rolling Hills Drive, asked if'the Council allows this
land to be developed, and if the Council goes against Staff
recommendations, who will assume liability for any potential slides, etc.
City Attorney Nave advised that there is no liability on the part of the
City even if it is contrary to Staff recommendations. The liability
would be with .the developer. A condition of approval could require a
comprehensive general liability policy. Civil Engineering, Architectural
and Landscaping Architectural firms could also be held liable.
Mr. Schuitemaker, 7397 Hansen Drive, stated that the EIR report indicates
that 1,052 trees to be removed, and even if you replant the trees, it
will take many years for them to grow to the height of where they are
now. He also questioned who will take care of the replanted trees. He
was opposed to removing trees that have been there for over 200 years.
Mr. Tong indicated that the initial proposal indicated about 1,000 trees.
Cm. Vonheeder questioned how many of the trees proposed for removal were
in good condition.
David Gates explained that their report is in matrix form and discussed
how their tree survey was done.
Mr. Tong pointed out the section in the Draft EIR that indicates there
were about 1,000 major trees and of those, about 47% were rated as having
average health.
Marjorie LaBar, with the Preserve Area Ridgeland Committee, expressed
concern that this is I of only 2 canyons of this type left in Dublin, and
this is an important tree habitat area. The developer has tried to be
sensitive with this I exception. She questioned if this swale could not
be developed, how much off-haul would be required. She felt the custom
lots on top will not fit as these slopes are much too steep. It is
important that the City stick to staying off the'steep slopes because of
the potential slide liability.
Zev Kahn, Harlan Road, felt that trees with a 3' circumference are
sizeable, and further, some consideration should be given to the smaller
trees. He questioned who would decide the worth of the smaller trees.
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Adjourned Regular Meeting November 29, 1988
David Gates advised that natural evolution would eliminate about 40% of
the trees if the situation were left alone.
Zev Kahn felt that obviously, there was a reason for setting the General
Plan with the 30% slope requirement, and he questioned the reasoning
behind this decision.
Mayor Moffatt advised that at that time, there was a consideration to
save as much as we could.
Cm. Vonheeder advised that each of the elements of the General Plan were
dealt with at several community meetings.
Cm. Hegarty stated that several years ago, it was discussed about how to
deal with these types of issues in the future. For any project that came
in, the general discussion was that a tree here and a tree there could be
discussed. As'far as building on 30% slopes, it was felt that if there
were pockets that were buildable, a developer could present this to the
City Council.
Cm. Snyder stated that as indicated, it is a General Plan. The City
Council has strong feelings about preserving these areas, but is willing
to look at the benefits and negatives on each plan that is presented.
Mr. Tong stated that the policy indicates intended goals, and there was a
lot of discussion related to the specific wording.
Elliott Healy, 11362 Betlen Drive felt there is an attitude that there is
a foregone conclusion that we are not talking about open space protection
in Dublin, but rather how we can amend the General Plan for this
developer. Mr. Healey indicated that his values are obviously a lot
different from those of this developer. From a visual standpoint, this
is probably the last Oak filled canyon in Dublin.
Cm. Snyder asked Staff if, on this site, there was available acreage that
is developable without an amendment to the General Plan.
Mr. Tong responded yes.
Landslides and fill areas were discussed.
Gordon Jacoby stated that with regard to the fill toward the Silvergate
Drive area, they looked at aerial photos taken in 1959. It was a swale
at that time. Some of the areas identified as slide areas are causes for
tree loss. In some of these locations, this is where they are proposing
for the roadway to be located.
Elliott Healy asked if the present Councilmembers were the ones who
approved the General Plan. Once these developments start, they do not
end at the property line, but there are~other developers waiting to
develop.
Mayor Moffatt stated that the public hearing for this aspect was closed.
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Adjourned Regular Meeting November 29, 1988
Cm. Hegarty stated the City did not make a mistake a few years ago in
trying to preserve the natural oak woodlands and natural resources within
our boundaries and in those areas to be annexed. With regard to the 30%
slopes, he is willing to look at a proposal, and if it makes sense, it
could be considered.
Cm. Snyder stated that a lot of thought went into the statement and
everyone recognizes that there is a value to the areas. The statements
were made for a purpose, and that was to preserve.
Cm. Jeffery stated she was concerned with filling in the swale and hoped
that some options could be discussed. She felt the 30% slope requirement
should be adhered to.
Cm. Vonheeder expressed concern that the swale is a major area and we are
not talking about I or 2 trees. This is a gorgeous area and she
indicated that she would also like to see what other alternatives might
be in order to preserve this swale.
Cm. Jeffery also expressed concern with the off-loading of dirt in terms
of trucks coming down City streets.
Gordon Jacoby advised that to haul 200,000 to 300,000 cubic yards of dirt
off the site would be approximately 20,000 truck loads.
Cm. Vonheeder asked if there is no off-hauling to the lower front area,
would this change the development.
Gordon Jacoby advised that he would need to look at this carefully and
come back with an answer. About 15' would need to be lowered to affect
the Hansen Drive views.
Mayor Moffatt announced that the Council would next discuss the
significant environmental impacts on oak/bay woodlands and stream
(riparian) corridor.
Gordon Jacoby advised that when you are down in the creek area, there is
a cow path and this is substantially below the area where they are
proposing to put houses. They propose to put the loop road further up on
the hill because it works its way down. The road line has no
relationship at all to the location of the creek which is down in the
ravine, and no homes are being proposed down this ravine.
Cm. Jeffery felt that the disruption to the trees along Martin Canyon
Creek is because of the road leading off the site. She asked if this was
the only area considered for the roadway.
Gordon Jacoby advised that~by and large, this was the best location which
required the least amount of grading and therefore, disruption.
Cm. Vonheeder felt that 'significant' is a rather subjective word and
requested that Mr. Tong define the process that was used to come up with
this determination.
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Adjourned Regular Meeting November 29, 1988
Mr. Tong explained that what was done on this property was that Staff and
the Applicant hired an outside consulting firm, EIP & Associates, to
prepare the report. They are professional environmental impact report
writers. They took the Applicant's proposal and did an environmental
analysis of the site and based upon their professional judgement, deter-
mined what would and would not be significant adverse impacts. They
found that removal of 600+ trees would create a significant adverse
environmental impact. Staff also agreed with this finding. Initially,
there was over 1,000 trees that would have been affected. They still
feel that removal of the revised amount of over 600 trees would be a
significant adverse impact.
Cm. Vonheeder asked if, separating the ravine from this process, was
there an adverse impact on the creek.
Mr. Tong felt that it would not have a significant adverse impact on the
creek, but they would continue to have a significant adverse impact on
the trees. Mr. Tong displayed some diagrams.
RECESS
Mayor Moffatt called for a short recess. Ail Councilmembers were present
when the meeting reconvened.
CONTINUATION
Marjorie LaBar stated that there has been discussion about preserving the
creek area in a state that is suitable for public access. She suggested
that City Staff check with the Cities of Livermore and Danville on their
Sycamore Project. This is a real chance to make this area available to
the citizens of Dublin.
Zev Kahn questioned if in the swale around the loop road there will be a
culvert under the road for animal access.
Gordon Jacoby advised that their concern is to keep this open.
Zev Kahn asked if the custom lots have to go through their own site
development review process.
Mr. Tong explained the PD process and advised that the custom lots would
most likely be subject to their own individual site development review
process.
Cm. Vonheeder felt it was possible that the developer could sell off the
custom lots individually once the land use is designated, and a parcel
separation is approved.
Mr. Healy requested that before the Council makes a decision, the
developer should be requested to present an alternative to taking out
this swale.
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Adjourned Regular Meeting November 29, 1988
Harvey Scudder stated that most of the value of the open space and
wildlife has been discussed in generalities only. He is a birdwatcher
and stated he wished to state some very specific things about the Martin
Canyon Creek area. Sixty species of birds have been recorded and
observed from his back yard. He has had occasion over the years to see
birds that winter in Martin Canyon. Birds utilize this property, not
necessarily nesting, but coming in and out.
Mr. Tong advised that the East Bay Regional Park District has indicated
that the only area they might be interested in is the knoll area. They
indicated that a system that links up Los Trampas with Sunol would be
desirable.
Mayor Moffatt asked if there were any further comments or questions on
this phase.
No further comments were made.
Mayor Moffatt advised that the next discussion would be the mass grading
impacts.
Gordon Jacoby stated they have tried to balance the project so they
aren't taking massive amounts of fill from the site.
Zev Kahn questioned what affect it would have on the fill if boulders are
found on the site. He asked how many bounlers can be removed at one time
and if they find 50 boulders, will this mean 50 more trips.
Gordon Jacoby indicated that they have conducted 3 geological tests with
about 50 borings. The boulders themselves can be worked into the fill.
They will have an on-site geotechnic expert.
Mr. Tong advised that the question of boulders on the site was also
addressed in the EIR. The studies that were done were found to be
inconclusive. If boulders similar to those found on the Bordeaux Estates
property were encountered on this site, special engineering solutions
would have to occur. Boulders would have an economic affect on whoever
develops the site.
Marjorie LaBar felt that the question is what will happen to the swale.
Just how much of the cut at the front portion of this project can be
recompacted and used. Is any necessary off-haul worth destroying a
really beautiful place?
Cm. Snyder felt that this might be the appropriate time to start to
separate the issues. A determination should be made as to whether the
secondary swale is going to be allowed to be filled, and if not, this
changes the whole aspect of the "mass grading" project.
Cm. Vonheeder indicated that if the City Council decides it doesn't want
the swale filled, everything will have to be reanalyzed and this will
change all the developer'S numbers. There may even be different
proposals as to where he wants to build.
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Adjourned Regular Meeting November 29, 1988
On motion of Cm. Jeffery, seconded by Cm. Hegarty, and by unanimous vote,
the Council requested that the developer seriously consider protecting
the swale area and not filling it.
With regard to off-hauling, Cm. Jeffery stated she would like to see some
options presented. If we try to take too much off the property, the
effects on the roads were of concern.
Cm. Vonheeder felt that because the Council has made a massive change and
given the developer some major direction, she felt the developer should
be able to study the impacts of the Council's decision. She felt the
public hearing should be continued at this point.
Cm. Hegarty felt that the area with almost no trees should be discussed.
Through careful development, this area can be made to look like the
residents desire it to look. The visual impacts can be preserved and
trees could be planted which would repair the scars. With regard to
water service, they would be going into the 4th pressure zone. Six or
seven years ago, Bordeaux Estates and Nielsen were going up into the 3rd
pressure zone.
Candi Larson, 7313 Castle Drive, apologized for her late arrival at the
meeting, but explained that she had just gotten off work. She felt that
a great concern should be potential mud slides. She read from a recent
newspaper article that stated, "There is no substitute for local
governments taking steps to ensure that construction doesn't go forward
in places where there is serious danger of landslide." She supports not
filling in the ravine. The Council should make sure that homes are built
on a very solid basis, not only for aesthetic reason, but also for safety
reasons. She would love to see the hills remain as they are, which she
realized probably wasn't likely.
Zev Kahn advised that he is impressed that the East Bay Regional Park
District is finally taking an interest in the hillside areas of Dublin.
Marjorie LaBar suggested that the Council look at another alternative for
providing the developer with a sufficient return on what was bound to be
a considerable investment in this property. She felt there are problems
with developing on a couple of the knolls, which are in direct contra-
diction with the General Plan. Developers should be allowed to develop
higher densities in areas that have a lesser impact on the environment.
There is a real market for cluster type homes.
Elliott Healy discussed visibility on the ridgelands. He thought there
were restrictions on the Pulte Hacienda Heights homes as far as what
would be visible from 1-580. They are very visible from 1-580 and he
questioned how this could happen.
Mr. Tong stated there was discussion at the Planning Commission level
regarding the visibility of these homes from 1-580, and it was their
determination that these homes did not conflict with the General Plan
policies regarding the ridgelines and that these homes were actually
below the Valley Christian Center structures.
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Adjourned Regular Meeting November 29, 1988
Cm. Hegarty advised that he has no problem so long as it can be
conditioned to maintain the greening affect.
Cm. Jeffery asked Mr. Jac°by if they had made any alternative plans.
Mr. Jacoby indicated they looked for direction from both the field trip
and this meeting. The grading problem is a significant one to be
resolved and one which will be a real challenge. They requested the
ability to get back to the Council with some concepts. They also need to
have further discussions with DSRSD relative to water services. Mr.
Jacoby advised that they would be prepared to discuss the grading and
off-haul at the next scheduled meeting.
City Manager Ambrose reported that it would be more productive if the
City Council has the benefit of looking at something prior to the
meeting. In order to give the Applicant adequate time to prepare alter-
natives as a result of Council comments at this meeting, Mr. Ambrose
suggested that the Council cancel the special meeting which was scheduled
for next Tuesday evening, December 6th, and continue at the special
meeting scheduled for December 13th.
Cm. Jeffery asked if the concessions were made for the Hansen Drive views
or for the development situation.
Mr. Jacoby indicated that they knew they would have to redo this slope
and this decision predated him. He has been On the project for about 1
1/2 years. He thought this decision emerged from the initial community
meetings, and the fact that they wanted to be good neighbors.
Zev Kahn thanked the City Council and Staff for meeting in such a good
facility as the School District BoardRoom. He also felt the Planning
Commission should be admonished for not being present to protect their
interests. The Planning Commission almost totally reversed the Planning
Department's Staff recommendations. He was surprised that they did not
make an effort to attend the field trip or this meeting.
Cm. Vonheeder indicated that she served on the first Planning Commission
and one of the facts that Planning Commissioners are advised early on, is
that they are a completely separate decision making body. The
information that the Council gets from the Planning Commission comes in
the form of reports. The Council does not wish to influence the Planning
Commission so that is why they do not attend their meetings and vice
versa.
Zev Kahn felt it was unfortunate to lead a developer down a path for 2
1/2 years thinking that his plan is approved up to that point, only to
have it reversed in such a big direction.
Elliott Healy questioned why there is such a big difference in what the
Planning Commission recommends as.opposed to what Staff recommends.
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Adjourned Regular Meeting November 29, 1988
Cm. Jeffery felt it was important that everyone understand that the
Planning Commission is basically an advisory body and as such, they do a
lot of the initial investigation. The Council then receives huge packets
of information which they then must go through, and as the time goes on,
more information develops. By the time the Council makes a decision,
they have had a chance to consider it from all different angles.
Harvey Scudder stated that the model he is most familiar with is the
Federal Government. When they have a group that does preparatory work,
such as the Planning Commission does for the Council, they are always
very careful to point out that the preparatory group does not make
decisions or take action, but only recommends. He felt it was
inappropriate to say that the Planning Commission "approved" such
conception. He felt it should say "recommends" an action or approval.
Cm. Vonheeder indicated that there are certain actions and decisions
which the Planning Commission does make and the City Council is merely an
appeal board.
Mayor Moffatt announced that discussion of this issue was continued to a
meeting which would take place on December 13th, 7:00 p.m., also to be
held in the School Distric~ facility. The special meeting scheduled for
December 6th was cancelled.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the Council, the meeting
was adjourned at 9:58 p.m.
ATTEST:
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Adjourned Regular Meeting November 29, 1988